Plantoil/diesel conversion basics
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ytk

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Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #1 
Hi Dana and all,

After running my car on VO for a year now i had to replace my IP since it became faulty probably because the conversion is not good enough and also because of my WVO filtering process is inadequate. I got to this conclusion after looking inside the old IP and reading threw this forums.

I have a 1996 toyota hilux which has a 2.4l engine with 4 cylinders and a Denso IP which operates threw the timing belt. 
I do have a scheme of my conversion but its in Microsoft word format(how can i upload it?)
I have a two tank conversion(the 65l original tank of VO and 20l  additional tank of diesel) with two separate filters , the VO filter has a coolant jacket  , there is a 3 port solenoid valve and of course an heat exchanger between the VO tank and the VO filter. And a looped return.    
I used to have a lift pump before the Heat exchanger but i noticed it created pressure problems and the engine was running better without it. Naturally my IP only pulls and there is no other inline or in tank fuel pump so i figured it wasn't allowing proper fuel flow to the IP , what will be in winter when the fuel is thicker? Dont know as my tank is not heated.  
A recent addition is your ILH.

My thoughts and questions:

Was reading here in the forums of people who only need to purge their system from VO  for a few seconds before they shutoff the engine. How is that done? I need at least 2 kms of driving and sometimes im not even sure its enough.

I do not want diesel and VO mixing in the tanks so i prefer leaving the looped return. Is that a good idea?

Are there any known ways to make an engine hot faster then normal? Like a special coolant blend? 

I used to let my WVO settle and only then filter it down to 1 micron but after reading here i will reverse the process , i also never used any kind of heat source since my WVO is always in liquid form , does it matter? 

I'm thinking of replacing the VO filter (which is a diesel filter) in an engine oil filter believing it will handle better and for longer the VO. Will have to change the filter housing of course. What do you think? 

Thanks in advance for any advise.

Yoav

 

 

 

 

danalinscott

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Reply with quote  #2 
In order,
I don't know hot to upload to this forum in MS word. Taking a screen shot of it and loading it as an image might work.

In nearly all cases I recommend some tank heating near the outlet. In climates where VO remains liquid this may not be required. If you install a pump you need to make sure it provides regulated pressure in the range your IP requires/tolerates. 

I have seen claims of purging in less than a minute...but never been able to verify that myself.  Those that use a fuel dye often think that when the dye shows up in the injector spill return line the purge is complete...when it fact it is only half done.  I recommend testing using a fuel dye (as pioneered by Frybrid) and then doubling the amount of time it takes for dye to show up in the injector spill return line. 

It is best to not run diesel in a looped return. If possible avoid it.
If you are concerned with VO and diesel fuel mixing it is best to direct any mixed fuel created during the purge to the VO tank rather than the diesel fuel tank.

I don't know of any way to make an engine heat up to operating temp faster other than using an electric engine preheater.

I don't understand why you would reverse your filtering/settling process. I suggest adding a prefiltering step prior to settling. The warmer WVO is the faster particulates and water settle out (within limits). So even if your WVO is liquid it may help speed settling if you add a bit of warmth. In some cases speed is not a concern.

In nearly all cases oil filters are not reliable for use as VO fuel filters. They often have a element bypass feature that will allow unfiltered VO to pass BY the element whenever the VO is very viscous or the element begins to clog. I do not recommend using oil filters in place of fuel filters. 



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Dana danalinscott@yahoo.com
ytk

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Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #3 
Hi Dana,

Thanks for all this answers, i did the screen shot but you need the photo in a link to upload it so never mind. 

The best way up to date to heat the tank near the outlet?

I think my IP doesn't tolerate any pressure as there is no pressure to the inlet of the pump, it pulls directly from the tank. 

Isn't it better to look for the dye  in the IP outlet (return line) , then you are sure VO is out of it too. 

Also in what way do you recommend having the return line? Having another valve with a timer for the return lines like seen in some places? Just have it regularly returned to the VO tank (then you lose the diesel when running on it)? Isn't it helpful to have the already hot returned VO back into the IP?    

Does settling eventually get the suspended water out? 
Will  a titration be helpful in determining if the VO is good enough (water-less) for use?

Thanks for the help,

Yoav

ytk

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Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #4 
Hi again Dana,

I would appreciate if you  could answer the above questions , along this year i am running on WVO the advises given by mostly you on this forums helped me upgrade my conversion significantly:, i used the coolant jacket filter heater which helps in winter, bought the ILH from you , i filter my oil now before settling as well .

I try to keep up do date with the info and research of WVO conversions but not always sure  about the accuracy of the info so i have a few more questions:

My oil titrates at about 0.4-0.5 ml , tested it like shown here :http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#titsvo , according to them it means my oil is probably dry enough. Is this method of testing relevant in the use of WVO as fuel?
 
Also read about WVO oxidation and possible damage to engine internal parts and bought some oxidative stabilizer for WVO , is this really necessary?

Still trying to figure out the best method to have the fuel return line setup . Currently both diesel and VO are looped back to the inlet side of the IP , i don't think i have air accumulating in the system since i dont seem to have any loss of power and according to some reading in this forums there usually isn't any problem with to much heat to the VO or Diesel since before the IP as it mixes with the fresh fuel.  
I still want to at least unloop the diesel so i have shorter purging time . I Have a six port valve but currently only using three ports. 

My Heat exchanger is before the filter, but i am thinking on having the heat exchanger the last thing before the IP, good idea?  

Also on the harness i bought from you the relay has a spare unused blue wire , could i connect it to the solenoid valve? I want to combine the switches  and relays to simplify things a bit.


Thanks and Happy new year

Yoav
danalinscott

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Reply with quote  #5 
The best way up to date to heat the tank near the outlet?

If a limited loop return is used a small temp regulated 12v electric heated outlet. 
I don't think these are commercially available so you would have to design and make your own.
This provides for rapid melting of any solid VO until the hot return fuel begins to do the majority of the work.

In most cases a coolant heated outlet is the most practical.
In any case do not design a tank heater that adds so much heat to the VO in the tank it creates conditions where rapid polymerization is likely.

 
I think my IP doesn't tolerate any pressure as there is no pressure to the inlet of the pump, it pulls directly from the tank. 
It is better to provide a very low fuel pressure at the inlet than require the IP to pull a high vacuum. 
 
Isn't it better to look for the dye  in the IP outlet (return line) , then you are sure VO is out of it too. 
I don't think so since the return line from the injectors will clear of VO after the IP is cleared. 
 
Also in what way do you recommend having the return line? Having another valve with a timer for the return lines like seen in some places? Just have it regularly returned to the VO tank (then you lose the diesel when running on it)? Isn't it helpful to have the already hot returned VO back into the IP?    

During shutdown there are not any other practical options other than returning the diesel/vo mixture created during the shutdown purge cycle to the VO tank. Returning that mix to the diesel tank will create engine longevity problems.
I believe the best option is to return some of the VO to the VO tank while operating on VO to allow any air bubbles to be purged
while recirculating most of the already heated return VO to the IP. This is referred to as a limited loop vo return configuration.

Does settling eventually get the suspended water out? 

Eventually yes...as long as the VO is fully liquid and not gelled.

Will  a titration be helpful in determining if the VO is good enough (water-less) for use?
No. Titration does not reveal water in VO fuel.

My oil titrates at about 0.4-0.5 ml , tested it like shown here :http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#titsvo , according to them it means my oil is probably dry enough. Is this method of testing relevant in the use of WVO as fuel?

Titration is not highly relevent..water content is. 
 
Also read about WVO oxidation and possible damage to engine internal parts and bought some oxidative stabilizer for WVO , is this really necessary?

There are different compounds sold as stabilizers. To date none I have tested have been especially effective. The most effective thing you can do is to make your wvo as water free as possible and not store wvo for long periods of time prior to use.
 
Still trying to figure out the best method to have the fuel return line setup . Currently both diesel and VO are looped back to the inlet side of the IP , i don't think i have air accumulating in the system since i dont seem to have any loss of power and according to some reading in this forums there usually isn't any problem with to much heat to the VO or Diesel since before the IP as it mixes with the fresh fuel.  
I still want to at least unloop the diesel so i have shorter purging time . I Have a six port valve but currently only using three ports.

I think unlooping diesel is a very good idea. 
 
My Heat exchanger is before the filter, but i am thinking on having the heat exchanger the last thing before the IP, good idea?  

Always have some kind of filter between the HE and the IP. Even a small disposable "Chunk catcher" is ok. It too will have to be heated (a simple hose jacket will work) to liquify any VO in it in cold weather.
 
Also on the harness i bought from you the relay has a spare unused blue wire , could i connect it to the solenoid valve? I want to combine the switches  and relays to simplify things a bit.

The blue wire is hot when the solenoid is "switched off" but the key is still on. I use it to operate solenoid valves in multi valve or timed configurations.

Hope this helps...and sorry I missed your first post. I am now semi retired...retaining only a single large client and so am travelling more to places that have no internet service.

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Dana danalinscott@yahoo.com
ytk

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Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #6 
Hi Dana,

It does help allot , Thanks! 

I tried installing two different lift pumps one was a carter p74143  which actually restricted the flow and another very cheap simple one actually created too much pressure which caused the VO filter seal to burst all the time, not sure how to handle that but since fuel consumption is not as a violent stream  in the line and the IP is always fed with hot VO i hope no damage would occur (the IP is mechanical and rotates threw the timing belt) .

One more thing pleas about the Harness: 
"The blue wire is hot when the solenoid is "switched off" but the key is still on. I use it to operate solenoid valves in multi valve or timed configurations."

You mean the blue wire has + in it when the in cabin switch is off? So it will not operate together with the ILH?

Thanks and enjoy your holidays

YTK
 
danalinscott

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Posts: 934
Reply with quote  #7 
You mean the blue wire has + in it when the in cabin switch is off? So it will not operate together with the ILH?


That is correct.

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Dana danalinscott@yahoo.com
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