Plantoil/diesel conversion basics
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samueleca

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Reply with quote  #16 

Is using a water heater less effective than your plan (BTW it is 30gal.) I was looking to gather the components for yours, and then was offered a free water heater, and figured it is already assembled and well insulated.

However if you think it is less effective I can take it apart and use the element and thermostat.

I thought my oil was dry due to long settling time, usually a month. Then I used the HPT and found it too wet, so I will continue testing.


Scott

danalinscott

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Reply with quote  #17 

I don't know how you intend to adapt a water heater to prefiltering but I have yet to see any design that is as effective as the simple handpump prefilter unit.  If you want to experiment then I suggest starting with the Frybrid Still design...and improving it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by samueleca

Is using a water heater less effective than your plan (BTW it is 30gal.) I was looking to gather the components for yours, and then was offered a free water heater, and figured it is already assembled and well insulated.

However if you think it is less effective I can take it apart and use the element and thermostat.

I thought my oil was dry due to long settling time, usually a month. Then I used the HPT and found it too wet, so I will continue testing.


Scott


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blenderbone

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Reply with quote  #18 
Dana,
I am unable to follow the link to your handpump prefilter unit below.  I am getting "forbidden" on the server.
Thanks,
Ben

The simple handpump prefilter unit is designed to dewater wvo sufficiently for use as fuel. It was intended as a simple and inexpensive yet effective way to process WVO into fuel for those needing less than 140 gallons per week. It is much simpler and quicker to settle out suspended water once particulates larger than 10 microns have been removed.


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danalinscott

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Reply with quote  #19 
Sorry about the dead link.

The how to file can be linked to HERE.

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biostudent

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Reply with quote  #20 
Its been some time since the last post... have the prices on centrifuges come down or are the ones being sold not good?

I see them for around $300-400. If it means no filtering other than a centrifuge I would consider it. Unless of course they aren't effective at dewatering. Plantdrive has a few and so does ebay.

danalinscott

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Reply with quote  #21 
Ther is quite a bit of confusion on the difference between  true (driven) cetrifuges and centrifugal filters.

A centrifugal filter is spun by the pressure of the fluid it is processing. A true centrifuge is driven by an engine or motor.

Centrifugal filters cannot be depended on to filter and dewater wvo in a single pass. They are all based on designs which were intended to provide continuous filtering of engine oil and so are incapable of single pass processing. As a result multiple passes are required to accomplish adequate dewatering of wvo fuel. And since water levels in wvo may vary quite a bit each batch must be tested to determine if the fuel has been adequately processed or must be run through the centrifugal filter longer.

True centrifuges on the other hand can be used to both filter and dewater wvo in a single pass. The majority of my clients use true centrifuges to process their wvo fuel.  They are fairly large industrial units none of which cost less than $5K (re-conditioned). Smaller true centrifuges have been introduced in thepast few years  which sell in the $800 to $2000 range.

Centrifugal filters are available in the $300 to $800 range..but aften require an additional investment of $200 to $400 for the pumps and controls required to process wvo into fuel.

The ONLY thing I use centrifugal filters for is what they were designed for...continuously cleaning engine lube oil. I do not consider them a wise investment as far as filtering/dewatering wvo. This is especially true since even true centrifuges are fast becoming obsolete as new technology is developed to more quickly and efficiently filter/dewater wvo. 

If you are considering purchasing a centrifugal filter to process wvo I would advise you to reconsider. Just becuase there are vendors who will sell them to you does not imply they work well. Nor does the existance of one or two very vocal fans of centrifugal filters. They are very "gee wiz" cool to use...but when actually tested very iffy when it comes to efficiently processing wvo.

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vocsun

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Reply with quote  #22 
Dana,

Great to find this forum.  It has already helped answer several questions I would have otherwise asked.  Unfortunately, some of the links to your diagrams / plans / parts are not working.  The link below (the word "HERE" at the very bottom of this post) led me to a page where a subsequent link was supposed to me to order, for $30, both the Hand Pump Filter and the Semi-automatic Pump Filter; instead an HOH Coolant device / plan showed up in the Paypal cart.  I could not get the $30 option (for both plans to show up).  Please advise.

Also, your comments on centrifuges have me holding off (not to mention the high prices).  So far the best stuff I've seen about dewatering has been about "cold settling" and allowing gravity to do some of the work.

Thanks!

               
    10/01/09 at 01:31 PMReply with quote#19

Sorry about the dead link.

The how to file can be linked to HERE.
 
danalinscott

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Reply with quote  #23 

Thanks for the "heads up" on the bad link.
I must have messed up that link recently.

I don't know if I will have time t fix it this week.
To expedite your order just email me and I will send you a Paypal "request for money" for them. I can email them out quicker than I can fix the link.


As far as cold settling...it only works well for WVO that is mostly very low melt point oils.  But if that is what you have..it works well.




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kristinthomas21

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Reply with quote  #24 
If the device must be removed to remove the accumulated water and particle contamination that may require much maintenance. These units have a feature that allows the separate water / particles sludge to be removed without the separation is much more convenient for this purpose.

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wood4sheep

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Reply with quote  #25 

I am so struggling with this water issue.  
I tried your HTP test and all our oil fails although half of it not by too much.   But...we just had a serious failure due to water in the vegifuel line and I never..repeat never want to go thru that again.  We are using 1991 jetta diesel in great shape with a full greasecar conversion.  I want to keep it in great shape.  

I tried to purchase your plans for the handpump but but the link does not work.   I am interested in this as an option to deal with this.

There is also the centrifuge option.  one is the dieselcraft and I see this other extreme raw power centrifuge.   I am willing to spend a few hundred or maybe more to never go thru that again.  once we have a good dewatering system I think it is worth it in the long run and I agree with your emphasis on dewatering the fuel.  Make sense even for an average joe.  will one of these centrifuges actually dewater?

Thanks for your input.  Discouraged right now but not giving up by any means!!!!!!!!


you mention new technology that makes centrefuges obsolete?  want to  know more!
danalinscott

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Reply with quote  #26 
I found your email to me in my spam box after reading this post. Yahoo's spam filter has been doing that to quite a few email that are not spam lately.

From the info in that email it seems like you had LOTS of water in your WVO fuel. And as a result you may have damaged your injectors. I encourage you to get them tested since running wvo in a diesel ..and especially a VW diesel...with eroded injectors can easily cause other..more serious.. problems with the engine.

As for dewatering your wvo fuel in the future...when you use the Hot Pan Test there should be NO bubbles. If there are any it may be too "wet" for your Jetta.  I am sending you a complimentary copy of the basic prefilter/dewatering unit. This website and Paypal do not seem to work well together.

In less than 6 months the proprietary agreement I have with the clients that funded the development of the new VO drying design will expire and I plan on offering a smaller version of the unit we have been using for large (over 1,000GPD) commercial prefilter/drying units for the past 2 years. Sorry to make you wait...but I have to honor my commitments.

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jamesgibeson

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Reply with quote  #27 
danalinscott, 

Are these new plans available yet?

Thanks,
James


Quote:
Originally Posted by danalinscott
I found your email to me in my spam box after reading this post. Yahoo's spam filter has been doing that to quite a few email that are not spam lately.

From the info in that email it seems like you had LOTS of water in your WVO fuel. And as a result you may have damaged your injectors. I encourage you to get them tested since running wvo in a diesel ..and especially a VW diesel...with eroded injectors can easily cause other..more serious.. problems with the engine.

As for dewatering your wvo fuel in the future...when you use the Hot Pan Test there should be NO bubbles. If there are any it may be too "wet" for your Jetta.  I am sending you a complimentary copy of the basic prefilter/dewatering unit. This website and Paypal do not seem to work well together.

In less than 6 months the proprietary agreement I have with the clients that funded the development of the new VO drying design will expire and I plan on offering a smaller version of the unit we have been using for large (over 1,000GPD) commercial prefilter/drying units for the past 2 years. Sorry to make you wait...but I have to honor my commitments.
danalinscott

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Reply with quote  #28 

Quote:

Are these new plans available yet?

Thanks,
James
 


This cannot be offerred as a how to file or plan.
However the small scale unit itself is being offerred to those willing to test it and sign a non-disclosure agreement and liability waiver.

So far there are 24 units being tested and 12 people on the waiting list.

Email me if you are interested in more info.

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mark13

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Reply with quote  #29 
I am using the settle for 2 weeks method. Hot pan test reveals nothing readily visible to my eye and I'm pretty confident that my source is good. My question is actually about the VegMax2 product offered by PlantDrive and some other vendors.

I have been assured that the VegMax base itself has a built in water separator / prefilter allowing the filter element to be installed on top of the base, rather than the usual way. I am currently using Donaldson filters mounted this way (which use Synteq media). Do you have any experience with this product and how this built in water separator function works? My mechanic does not seem to be convinced that the VM2 will work as a fuel / water separator with the filter mounted on top.
danalinscott

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
I have been assured that the VegMax base itself has a built in water separator / prefilter allowing the filter element to be installed on top of the base, rather than the usual way. I am currently using Donaldson filters mounted this way (which use Synteq media). Do you have any experience with this product and how this built in water separator function works?


I am not sure what you expect the water seperator to do. At most these type of water seperators will ONLY remove visible droplets of water from diesel fuel. With WVO fuel the droplets must be several times larger for them to be "seperated" from the fuel by these units. They were not designed to remove suspended water from wvo so they really are not capable of doing so. Vendors are quick to assure potential customers that they do but are either ignorant of the mipossibility of thier claims or simply do not care if they have to lie in order to make a sale. I know that is blunt..but it is also factual.

If you have good wvo fuel already using one of these expensive filter units is a waste of your financial resources in my opinion. They will accomplish no more than a filter costing 1/4 as much. On the other hand if you DO NOT have good quality wvo fuel they are not capable of significantly improving it.

Given the above information I do not think it matters significantly how you mount the unit.

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