Plantoil/diesel conversion basics
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danalinscott

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Reply with quote  #1 
VO/PO/WVO conversions usually include a heated filter. This is necessary primarily because the VO/PO in the filter must be fully liquefied to allow it to pass through the element as easily as diesel fuel.
 
Most "heated filters" designed for diesel fuel are not sufficient for use as heated VO?PO filters. This is due to the fact they contain an internal non-adjustable thermostat that prevents temperatures of higher than that needed to de-gel cold diesel fuel from being reached. This temperature is usually under 65°F and most VO/PO filters need a minimum temp of 65°F to operate reliably. Filters used with WVO conversions should be able to maintain a minimum temp of at least 85°F.


There are three types of heated filters available.
Those heated by coolant, those heated by 12vDC electricity and those heated by BOTH coolant and 12vDC electricity.

The advantage of a coolant heated filter is that it does not draw upon the limited extra on-board electrical production which may be more useful for heating purposes elsewhere. The disadvantage is that no filter heating is available until the engine is producing enough heat to warm the coolant.

The advantage of Electrically heated filter is that it can be liquefying VO in the filter long before the coolant is warm. The disadvantage is it draws upon the limited extra on-board electrical production which may be more useful for heating purposes elsewhere.


A combination coolant AND electrically heated filter  has the advantages of both..and not the disadvantages.



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danalinscott

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Posted 14 June 2006 01:51 PM
I've always heard the regular water trapping filter elements (not coalescing type) do not work on water in vegetable oil. However, a friend seems to have experience that is contrary.

He collects fresh oil which does not have any separation even after filtering it to 2 micron. He does not use a heated settling stage.

He circulates the oil through a series of filters including a Goldenrod water trap element. The flow was reduced to almost nothing. He replaced the particulate filters but the flow was still minimal. He replaced the Goldenrod water element and flow was restored.

I understand the water absorbing material in these filters grows as it takes in water, probably using the same stuff as a disposable diaper. This would reduce the flow.

It sounds to me like the Goldenrod does work on WVO after all. I may go with a larger Cimtek water trap filter for more surface area.

Opinions? Suggestions?

Todd
 
Posts: 436 | Location: Monroe, LA | Registered: 04 July 2004 Reply With QuoteReport This Post

 

 

 

 

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Posted 14 June 2006 04:47 PM
Water blocking filters do not actually stop water from passing through the elements. They absorb SOME of the water passing through and cause the element material to swell thereby closing down the pores in the element that fuel must pass through.

They are intended as a warning device to let folks know they have water in their fuel. But only afte a significant amount fo water laden fuel has passed thorugh the filter. And they work passably well for that...but not for preventing water from passing through to the IP.


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danalinscott

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From the Infopop svo forum:
Old post 6/07/06 at 12:45 PM  Email PM Reply


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Posted 06 June 2006 10:50 PM
i'm in the process of converting an 82 300d and while spending many hours sifting through old threads i have ran across far too much information to retain about different filters to add into the system. i was wondering what people think are the most efficient, both in thier filtering ability and the long term costs of operating. i am building the conversion from scratch and have some money to put into it, so the initial cost is not my big concern, mostly i want the best filter i can get that has the smallest cost to run (replace filters). The 300d is the trial conversion, after which i will be converting multiple other vehicles, mostly larger trucks ( we are building a fleet of grease rigs) so i'm not after something specific to the smaller mercedes engines, just the best filters out there, preferably washable elements and with some sort of water removal. are there any filter comparison threads or sites that anyone knows of?
 
 
Posts: 23 | Registered: 17 September 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posted 07 June 2006 01:55 AM
Your on-vehicle filter requierments will be directly related to what sort of off-vehicle filtering and dewatering you do, especially with a heated vehicle fuel system, the heat should eliminate problems caused by high-meltpoint fats and hydrogenated oil.

If you are cleaning LOTS of oil and have the funding, start by passing the oil through a couple of commercial centrifuges, one to remove MOST of the water, and another to remove MOST of the larger particulate, then do lots of filtering and a final dewatering.

If you put clean oil into the vehicle you won't need all that much in the way of extra filtering, main concern would be cost of the filters. adding a small, cheap, in-line, throw away fuel line filter saves plugging the larger factory engine filter but it also could be a hinderance due to plugging with solidified fats in colder weather, it's a tradeoff.

I don't know of anyone who has yet found a single filter that fits all the requierments you list.

All the filtering and dewatering should be done prior to the vehicle or you will be changing filters constantly and run the risk of injector pump damage,
 
Posts: 1308 | Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: 03 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posted 07 June 2006 02:04 AM
Bob,


If the mercedes conversion is to be a prototype for converting large trucks I suggest that you may want to reserch more before proceeding. I convert truck fleets for a living and think you may also want to research the legalities of using wvo as over the road fuel and the hurdles you may have to jump through to do so legally.

When choosing which heated filter to use for fleet conversions I discovered that there are really none available that are particularly suited to the task. Like many of the other compnonents I found it best to simply modify an existin glow cost filterhead with low cost elements that stand up well to heated VO.

If you prefilter and dewater sufficiently the filters in your VO fuel system will not require changing more often than every 10K. On that note I suggest that you may want to research how to process the wvo you plan to use as fuel before proceeding further as well.


Dana
danalinscott@yahoo.com
http://vegoilconversions.netfirms.com/
VegOil Conversions by ana Linscott- VO Conversion
Consultation for large and small trucks, VO fuel related businesses, and co-generation(power/heat)projects
 
Posts: 3693 | Location: Central MN..Brrrrrr! | Registered: 06 November 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Posted 07 June 2006 06:28 AM
I like the commercial truck filters partly for availabiltity. The filter heads are about $25 and have mutiple styles. If you stop at a truck stop there will be ten different styles of filter to fit your every need. Most mount to that standard filter head.


Robert
In Fort Lauderdale running a 1995 Dodge Cummins SVO with 63 gallon veggie tank with Vegterm. Bio-diesel some times.
 
Posts: 505 | Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posted 07 June 2006 09:05 AM
Ok, i guess as usual i don't clearly convey waht i mean to when typing. a centerfuge is out of my price range, i was thinking more along the lines of the racors and whatnot. all oil will be heated, settled and filtered before going into the vehicle. i was just looking for a good filter that is possibly reusable as opposed to throwing out the elements. maybe it's unnessecary if the oil is clean enough. however, it seems something like this would be good on or off of the vehicle, whereever you were doing a lot of filtering.
 
Posts: 23 | Registered: 17 September 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posted 07 June 2006 10:22 AM
Ironically the Racors (a respected name in fuel filters) tend not to fare the best when subjected to hot VO. Many filter elements are simply not engineered for the temps that use in a VO conversion subjects thtem to and so the hot glue typically used to seal and secure the corregated paper element can soften and fail. I prefer Goldenrod elements since they tend to stand up well to the temps they are subjected to in my conversions. So I tend to use filter heads that they fit as a starting point for making an electrical/coolnat heated filter.

I have developed two filters at this point that do that. The GoldenGlow is a simple conversion tht anyone can do using a standard GoldenRod spin on filter head w/1" ports. It allos insertion of up to 3 long life glowplugs (15 amps ea) in the inlet and a standard automotive coolant probe/gauge in the outlet. This allows a very fast liquification of VO in the filter even in cold weather with high fat/hydrogenated wvo AND easy monitoring of the temp of the filter/VO passing through. Cost for a 15 amp GoldeGlow is around $75 for parts and $20 for the how to file. Coolant heat is added using a simple coolant jacket "wrap".
The FREE coolant jacket filter heater How-to file can be downloaded from
HERE.

The filter head I use on large truck (7 liter and bigger) conversions uses a different filter head with the same threaded ports provided by the GoldenGlow conversion PLUS a limited return port so any bubbles drawn in to the VO fuel system have a place to exit the vo loopeasily.

This filterhead accepts standard GoldenRod filters AND a few others currently undergoing testing for element glue stability at high temps. Although I do not yet offer this filterhead to the public...currently using it only in my fleet conversions...I am considering offerring it on a limited basis to forum members at the same price I charge fleet clients for it in lots of 10.

As far as a washable/reusable filter element these are offerred by Racor but are expensive and have a very small element area. The are also very hard to add 12v or coolant heat to.

I have approached a filter company about making reusable stainless steel mesh (10 micron) filter elements but the quote for produceing them was over 30 times the cost of disposable paper elements. Not economically viable IMO.



Dana
danalinscott@yahoo.com
http://vegoilconversions.netfirms.com/
VegOil Conversions by ana Linscott- VO Conversion
Consultation for large and small trucks, VO fuel related businesses, and co-generation(power/heat)projects
 
Posts: 3693 | Location: Central MN..Brrrrrr! | Registered: 06 November 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Posted 07 June 2006 11:48 AM
 these glow plug heated filters, do they stay on all the time or do they cycle on and off? does this put too much stress on the existing mercedes alternator? initially when i was planning on converting this car i was going to use an (almost) all electrically heated system as i am living in town and only drive short distances so heat up time was a big concern. i decided to just make biodiesel for town driving but am moving way out in the country again soon, so i'm gonna convert everything to grease.
 
Posts: 23 | Registered: 17 September 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posted 07 June 2006 11:49 AM
I have used both Davco 234+ and vormax. I've been pretty happy with both. Te Davco has some attributes the vormax doesn't, but the davco 234+ is bigger and thus may not be well suited to the other vehicles you plan to convert later (it fits under the hood of the old mercs just fine). I would say if you want commonality across all yoru conversions, the vormax is probably more suited to your needs. It doesn't really fit your requirement of low cost (it may be the costliest out there in terms of initial investment).

In terms of ongoing filter expense, I found davco and vormax to be about equivelent cost-wise. The vormax elements can be had any just about any auto parts store. Not sure about the davco 234+ elements. I bought three spares when I got the filter and never used them all so never tried to find its element at the auto part store. For the davco, figure about $250. For the vormax, figure closer to $400, but check the plantdrive website for an accurate price on that one.

Good luck.

Charlie


2000 Excursion 7.3L Running VO
 
Posts: 286 | Location: San Jose, CA | Registered: 08 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posted 07 June 2006 12:40 PM

 


 
quote:
these glow plug heated filters, do they stay on all the time or do they cycle on and off? does this put too much stress on the existing mercedes alternator


Upon start up (esp in cold weather) they stay on until the coolant is able to take over the function mostly. Then they cycle on and off to maintain a set VO temp range. You may want to have the actual uotput of your alternator tested to see if it is what it originally was but 15-30 amps of intermittant draw is hardly ever a problem.


 
quote:
i'm sure all of this has been disgussed, but i have spent countless hours searching and reading and have not been able to find the specific info i seek.


I know it is getting harder and harder to glean the useful info needed by new...er... those new to VO conversions...so I am creating an archive to make ut simpler at:
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/voconversionbasics


Dana
danalinscott@yahoo.com
http://vegoilconversions.netfirms.com/
VegOil Conversions by ana Linscott- VO Conversion
Consultation for large and small trucks, VO fuel related businesses, and co-generation(power/heat)projects
 
Posts: 3693 | Location: Central MN..Brrrrrr! | Registered: 06 November 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Posted 07 June 2006 12:44 PM
The Fattywagons.com filter looks nice, uses an industry standard diesel truck filter element, and is heated.


1983 Mercedes 300CD
oil is oil... but fresher is better.
VO+Car= (a beautiful thing)
 
Posts: 269 | Location: NJ | Registered: 29 March 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posted 07 June 2006 01:13 PM
on my first coversion i used the fleetgurad fh 23000 (or something like that). it's designed as a truck filter and has a large element. i have been running since christmas on the first filter. i bougth 2 spares thinking they wouldn't last long.

i moved the washer bottle to the other side and cut a hole in the fender so the sediment bowl and drain drops out the bottom, which is nice. i can send photos if you like.

look on ebay. there is a company called svo supply that posts them.

challenge is i think they are no longer being made- so does it make sense long term to use them if you can't continue with your trucks later. maybe you could buy a dozen now. the element is from something else and while not redily available you can order them.

pat


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